For 25 years, Ulrich Schneider was the general manager of the German Paritätischer Wohlfahrtsverband. In this role, he was one of the most prominent fighters for the interests of the poor. Now the 65-year-old, whom his opponents call a “social lobbyist,” is retired. He now wants to write books and give lectures.
WELT: Mr. Schneider, what does retirement life feel like?
Ulrich Schneider: Different. When I woke up in the morning, my adrenaline was usually already at 100. I had to keep myself up to date with the latest information. What was happening in social policy? Then I had 1,000 appointments. I won’t miss that – to be honest. Now I can sleep in and work at the supermarket checkouts with the other pensioners when everyone else has finished work. (laughs)
WELT: You have been campaigning for redistribution and the expansion of the welfare state for decades. However, according to your annual poverty report, poverty in Germany is not decreasing. Has your work been in vain?
Schneider: My wife said to me recently: “You go to the gym twice a week. When do you ever see anything?” I answered her: “What do you think I would look like if I didn’t go there at all?” But yes, if you want to call me a “social lobbyist”, I have to admit: I am probably the most unsuccessful lobbyist walking around Berlin.
WELT: You often seemed like someone who appealed to solidarity in society – rather than a class warrior who wanted to turn things upside down. Were you too tame?
Schneider: Maybe I was too timid for a long time. There were times when, in view of the social injustice in the country, I almost humbly appealed to the goodwill of the rich. But now I clearly state who actually benefits from poverty. It is, of course, the rich who secure their profits.
As far as class struggle goes: There are people who don’t go to demonstrations, they’re up to their necks in everyday problems – these are the people you have to deal with first. So I say: First help them fill out the damn forms for the office and leave them alone with your class struggle until they see some land again.
WELT: In October 2022, trade unions, climate and other activists called for an “autumn of solidarity”. Only a few thousand people came to the demonstration in Berlin at the time. On the same day, almost 80,000 people demonstrated for women’s rights in Iran. Are people in Germany simply not interested in social injustice?
Schneider: That day really affected me. It was basically the reason for my new book. I was endlessly frustrated and thought for a long time about what had gone wrong and why we in Germany are having such a hard time with a solidarity movement for the poor.
WELT: What conclusion did you come to?
Schneider: As far as this failed day of solidarity is concerned, I believe that the issues of the individual actors were simply too far apart. The unions mainly wanted their tax-free relief allowance and the gas price cap. With the exception of Ver.di, they hardly advocated the demands of the people at the bottom of the ladder at the federal level. We in the social associations wanted the aid to be concentrated on those who were really in need.
WELT: But perhaps your thematic focus was too broad. Your alliance stood for solidarity with Ukraine and the fight against climate change rather than just social equality. Doesn’t that scare off those who also want redistribution but have a different opinion on these issues?
Schneider: It was clear to us that ecology is part of it. It is about the basis of our existence on this planet. We had to take a proactive stand against all attempts to pit social issues against ecological ones. And we certainly did not want to provide a forum for anyone who thought that the sanctions against Russia should be lifted in order to solve our energy price problems.
WELT: But the bottom line is that there is no powerful movement for an expansion of the welfare state in Germany. And no political majorities either.
Schneider: Yes, the situation is shitty. There is currently no visible party-political majority that could implement left-wing policies.
WELT: The Greens and the SPD have, at least rhetorically, turned away from Agenda 2010. But with the onset of the recession, the debates about supposedly lazy unemployed people are reminiscent of that time.
Schneider: That’s true, but it doesn’t help. You have to fight back and educate people.
WELT: But many people do that. Incorrect calculations about people receiving citizen’s allowance, who supposedly get more money than employees, have been refuted by journalists. Nevertheless, prejudices against the unemployed are met with enormous social backlash. Why is that?
Schneider: Many people are currently afraid of falling into poverty. It gives them a false sense of security. It is their way of dealing with their fear, believing they are part of a “working” majority and rejecting others who are worse off. The Union quickly realised how it could make political capital out of this and launched a real campaign against people on Hartz IV. The SPD and the Greens stood by helplessly.
WELT: You have always been very present on television. Your opponents accuse you of a certain need for self-promotion.
Schneider: Of course I have an ego, I like being on stage. But I am always well prepared and stick to the facts. I don’t allow myself to be carried away by false information or unfair attacks. I’m not looking for cheap applause.
WELT: Don’t your public denunciations diminish your political influence? Who wants to talk to someone who is constantly complaining about government policy?
Schneider: On the contrary. The way lobbying works in our media society, with a strong media presence you get appointments with politicians that you wouldn’t otherwise get. If I deal with the issue of poverty from a civil society perspective, I have no real political bargaining power other than the threat of being able to influence public opinion.
WELT: Your critics also accuse you of deliberately portraying the social conditions in Germany in a negative light and ignoring circumstances that do not fit into your agenda. For example, one could argue that a large part of the poverty in Germany is due to the massive influx of asylum seekers.
Schneider: The fact is not denied. But what is that supposed to be an argument for? Where the people who suffer from poverty come from is secondary. They are poor and they are here, and besides, our social responsibility as the world’s third-strongest economy does not end at our borders.
WELT: Do you have a message for your critics?
Schneider: I have no critics, everyone loves me… (laughs)
Ulrich Schneider’s book “Crisis: The Failure of a Republic” will be published on June 24th.