Nazi slogans, violence against politicians and glorification of the SS – numerous incidents have shocked Germany in recent weeks. Activist and pensioner Irmela Mensah-Schramm has known about these problems for years. In an interview, she reveals how she experienced the violence and what can be done against hate messages.
Young Sylt guests shout Nazi slogans, violence against politicians is increasing and AfD politicians glorify the SS. Irmela Mensah-Schramm has experience with slogans, violence and the AfD. The 78-year-old pensioner from Berlin is known nationwide. For almost four decades she has been removing hate messages, Nazi stickers, swastikas, anti-Semitic slogans and other right-wing extremist symbols from public spaces. She is repeatedly attacked or insulted for this.
In an interview with FOCUS online, she reveals what advice she has for the Sylt snobs for the future, why she is not afraid of Nazis and why civil courage is more important today than ever.
FOCUS online: Ms. Mensah-Schramm, a disturbing video has been circulating on social media for a while now, showing a party at the “Pony” club on Sylt, where young men and women are shouting racist slogans. Many more videos have been added from all over Germany since then. How do you combat hate that is shouted and sung loudly?
Mensah-Schramm: Young people in a party mood tend to get carried away by unbridled behavior. If one person starts shouting racist slogans and thinks it’s cool, others often jump on the bandwagon without thinking too much about it. That’s the fatal thing about it.
It would be good if one or two people from the group stood up and said: “Stop, that’s not right, we shouldn’t do that.” Unfortunately, that happens far too rarely and the other guests who feel disturbed by such behavior do not actively defend themselves.
What do you think about the fact that there is so little resistance?
Mensah-Schramm: I am shocked, but honestly, it is nothing new to me.
You have been fighting hate messages in public spaces for almost forty years, using spray cans among other things. How did your journey into this activism begin and what motivates you to continue to be so active today?
Mensah-Schramm: My journey began in Berlin in 1986. At that time, the Nazis were raging in the city. One day I came across a hate message from the Nazi era. I was shocked and it stuck with me all day. At that moment I realized that I had to take action. I also asked myself why no one else had done anything about it. I went back to the place where the message was and scratched off the rubbish with my key. The feeling afterwards was incredibly good. It confirmed to me that you can achieve something by taking action. This motivation has continued to this day.
You have now removed around 140,000 Nazi stickers, swastikas and anti-Semitic slogans. Why is this work so important to you?
Mensah-Schramm: These hate messages tempt people to shout slogans of their own, similar to the young people on Sylt. Unfortunately, negative messages are easier to remember than positive ones. The realization that silence means complicity motivated me to take action. If no one feels responsible for removing a hate slogan, then I’ll just take responsibility. Otherwise, the impression could be created that such statements are normal or accepted.
The AfD is trying to shift the social discourse further and further to the right. The AfD’s leading candidate for the European elections, Maximilian Krah, recently trivialized the crimes of the SS. AfD Bundestag member Leif-Erik Holm recently said that Krah’s statements about the SS were basically “normal”. What goes through your head when you hear something like that?
Mensah-Schramm: I have experienced the AfD myself. Their strategy consists mainly of false claims, accusations and suspicions, which are often based on untruths. They try to present citizens with a false reality. I have experienced three court cases based on complaints filed by the AfD, which were based on lies.
Mr Krah’s statements about the SS are simply unbelievable. Sometimes I get the impression that the AfD not only wants to repeat the past, but even surpass it.
There are currently repeated reports of politicians being verbally or physically attacked. Are you afraid today when you go through the streets and remove hate messages?
Mensah-Schramm: Just last week I had an encounter in Flöha in Saxony. I was attacked once, threatened twice and insulted once.
What exactly happened?
Mensah-Schramm: I was at the train station and removed an NPD sticker. A man of about forty came up to me and attacked me. I gathered my courage and shouted loudly in his face: “Kiss my ass!” This frightened him so much that he let go of me.
Shortly after that, another man insulted me and took a photo of me with his cell phone. My reaction was to give him the middle finger. Then a third man came and spat at my feet. And finally, I was criticized by a woman because the pieces of the stickers I had removed were on the floor. She demanded that I pick them up. All of these incidents happened within an hour.
Does this happen to you more often today than before?
Mensah-Schramm: I have the impression that the inhibition threshold for aggressive actions has dropped somewhat. The attacks on me personally have not become more frequent, but I used to see more damage to election posters, but today it is more likely that the campaign workers themselves are attacked. Based on my personal experience and findings, I cannot confirm an increase in Nazi propaganda on house walls or similar. But there are still depressing and shocking examples of hatred.
Do you have an example?
Mensah-Schramm: There was a message on a subway construction site that I found a few years ago in Berlin-Steglitz. It said: “Remember, you Kanacks: We once had 6,000,000 Jews.” The citizens stand there and don’t notice anything, don’t do anything. Findings like that deeply affect me.
You, on the other hand, then become active. What does civil courage mean to you and how can citizens show it in everyday life?
Mensah-Schramm: Civil courage is extremely important. Anyone can show it, and if more people did it, we could better counter hatred and prejudice. However, many people who get involved quickly see themselves as victims. I have always refused to see myself as a victim, even after serious attacks such as the paving stone that was thrown in my face in Dresden in 2013. I advise everyone to suppress their fear. Show courage and strength, and you will not only strengthen yourself, but also the community in the fight against hatred.
Can you give an example from your everyday life where you particularly had to suppress your fear?
Mensah-Schramm: Yes, once in Cottbus in Brandenburg I removed a swastika and was confronted by a man. Despite his aggressive attitude and repeated threatening requests to leave the swastika on, I removed it. When he stormed towards me, I went to meet him. Our noses almost touched. I showed no fear, but faced him with a cheeky grin. That surprised him and then he suddenly ran away, as if he was running for his life.
What are your plans for the future? How will you continue your work in the current form or will something change for you?
Mensah-Schramm: Yes, I will definitely continue my work. In addition to removing hate messages, I also hold workshops in schools and put on exhibitions. In this way, I can reach students directly and encourage them to spread positive messages and stand up against hate. My main goal is not to fight hate with hate. I always stress that I am not fighting against the Nazis, but against their mentality.
What message do you have for people who chant xenophobic, anti-Semitic or racist slogans in Sylt or elsewhere in Germany? What else do you want to tell people?
Mensah-Schramm: My message would be: There is nothing wrong with having fun, but always remember what impact your behavior can have. Instead of acting rashly, you should stop and think about what you are doing. That is something I always try to do when I deal with right-wing people.